Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, take three

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From: Paul E. McKenney
Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010 - 11:07 am

On Sun, Aug 08, 2010 at 03:40:28PM +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote:

Indeed they are, given the way you quoted small portions of them.  ;-)


These would be buggy PM-driving applications.  Of course, any type of
application might have bugs, including PM-driving applications.


I did indeed exclude this category by saying "power-optimized applications
are those PM-driving applications that have been aggressively tuned
to reduce power consumption."  The reason I excluded this case is that
that there are a number of cases where removing the PM-driving attribute
could destroy the power optimization.

If you have an example power-optimized application that retains its
power-optimized property despite lacking PM-driving privileges, please
put it forward.  In doing so, please keep two things in mind:

1.	The definition of power-optimized is more aggressive than many
	people are used to -- look at http://lkml.org/lkml/2010/8/4/409
	and search for "POWER-OPTIMIZED APPLICATIONS".

2.	In a number of the implementations that do not use suspend blockers,
	-all- applications are in effect PM-driving applications.
	So it is quite possible that different people are using subtly
	different flavors of the "PM-driving applications" definition.

	For example, an Android person might consider a application to
	be PM-driving only if it is permitted to use suspend blockers,
	while a Maemo person might consider an application to be
	PM-driving if it had permission to invoke pm_qos functions.
	If these two hypothetical people each try to apply their
	definition of PM-driving to each others' platforms, they will
	likely have severe problems communicating with each other,
	right?  ;-)

But if you do have a good example, perhaps I will need to change my
definition of power-optimized application.


In fact, you might have noticed that the proponents of each platform
have been quite persistent in shouting past each other from the warmth
and security of their own particular viewpoints.  ;-)

							Thanx, Paul
--
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Messages in current thread:
Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Jul 31, 10:58 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sat Jul 31, 9:52 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Jul 31, 10:48 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sat Jul 31, 11:01 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Mikael Abrahamsson, (Sat Jul 31, 11:24 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Mikael Abrahamsson, (Sat Jul 31, 11:49 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 12:12 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 12:27 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 3:47 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 3:49 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 4:00 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Aug 1, 4:02 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 4:12 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 6:10 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 8:03 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 8:04 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 8:06 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 9:05 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Sun Aug 1, 10:34 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Sun Aug 1, 10:44 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Sun Aug 1, 11:40 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Sun Aug 1, 11:53 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Mon Aug 2, 12:23 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 2, 6:52 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 7:00 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 2, 7:08 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 7:09 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 7:12 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 1:36 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 2, 2:33 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 3:27 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 2, 3:40 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Mon Aug 2, 8:21 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Mon Aug 2, 9:18 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Mon Aug 2, 9:56 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Mon Aug 2, 10:01 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Tue Aug 3, 4:25 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Tue Aug 3, 4:26 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Tue Aug 3, 7:11 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Tue Aug 3, 8:41 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 3:23 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 3:47 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Tue Aug 3, 5:10 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Tue Aug 3, 6:09 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Tue Aug 3, 6:34 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 8:39 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Tue Aug 3, 8:57 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Olivier Galibert, (Tue Aug 3, 9:58 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 10:22 pm)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 10:43 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Tue Aug 3, 10:46 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 10:59 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 11:03 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Tue Aug 3, 11:12 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Olivier Galibert, (Tue Aug 3, 11:28 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 11:50 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 12:10 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Wed Aug 4, 12:35 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 4:47 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 9:27 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 9:32 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 9:35 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 11:32 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 11:39 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 11:55 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 12:21 pm)
Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, take two, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 12:57 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 12:57 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 1:08 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 1:31 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Pavel Machek, (Wed Aug 4, 1:42 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 1:43 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 1:46 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 1:48 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 1:51 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 1:51 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 1:56 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Pavel Machek, (Wed Aug 4, 2:15 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 2:15 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 2:31 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Wed Aug 4, 2:39 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 3:08 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 3:51 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 4:06 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 4:10 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Anca Emanuel, (Wed Aug 4, 4:13 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 4:15 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 4:19 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 4:26 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 4:30 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 4:33 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 4:40 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 5:10 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 5:15 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 5:17 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 5:20 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 5:48 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 6:02 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matt Helsley, (Wed Aug 4, 6:58 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Wed Aug 4, 7:02 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 7:39 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Wed Aug 4, 7:46 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matt Helsley, (Wed Aug 4, 8:25 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 8:59 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 9:05 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Wed Aug 4, 10:33 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Wed Aug 4, 10:56 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 6:38 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 6:40 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 6:47 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 7:16 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 7:23 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 7:29 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 7:33 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 8:12 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 8:15 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Aug 5, 8:34 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 11:09 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, kevin granade, (Thu Aug 5, 11:13 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 11:20 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 11:21 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 1:31 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, kevin granade, (Thu Aug 5, 1:51 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Thu Aug 5, 3:02 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 3:16 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 4:03 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 4:05 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 4:19 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Aug 5, 4:41 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 5:13 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 5:22 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 5:29 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Aug 5, 5:42 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 6:22 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Thu Aug 5, 6:29 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 9:00 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 10:09 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 10:22 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 10:24 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 11:18 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 5:36 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sat Aug 7, 2:01 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Aug 7, 7:36 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Aug 7, 8:07 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Aug 7, 2:11 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Felipe Contreras, (Sun Aug 8, 6:35 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Sun Aug 8, 9:08 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Felipe Contreras, (Sun Aug 8, 10:08 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Sun Aug 8, 10:09 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 8, 11:07 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Wed Aug 11, 12:18 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Wed Aug 11, 12:25 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Felipe Contreras, (Wed Aug 11, 5:23 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 12, 10:43 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Thu Aug 12, 10:52 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 12, 11:38 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Thu Aug 12, 12:00 pm)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Dominik Brodowski, (Thu Aug 12, 12:27 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Thu Aug 12, 12:34 pm)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Dominik Brodowski, (Thu Aug 12, 12:52 pm)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Felipe Contreras, (Fri Aug 13, 3:43 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Dominik Brodowski, (Fri Aug 13, 8:57 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Dominik Brodowski, (Fri Aug 13, 9:19 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Felipe Contreras, (Fri Aug 13, 9:19 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., James Bottomley, (Fri Aug 13, 10:11 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 13, 10:13 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 15, 12:00 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 16, 2:11 pm)