Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!

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From: david
Date: Thursday, May 1, 2008 - 12:07 pm

On Thu, 1 May 2008, Willy Tarreau wrote:


the problem with trying to make the cycle twice as fast is that it takes 
time to hunt down the hard bugs, even when you have some idea where they 
are.

go back through the last few kernels and look at the bugs that were fixed 
in the last couple of -rc releases (and in final), would they have really 
been fixed faster if other changes hadn't taken place?

I suspect that they would not have, and if I'm right the result of merging 
half as much wouldn't be twice as many releases, but rather approximatly 
the same release schedule with more piling up for the next release.

even individual git trees that do get a fair bit of testing (like 
networking for example) run into odd and hard to debug problems when 
exposed to a wider set of hardware and loads. having the networking 
changes go in every 4 months (with 4 months worth of changes) instead of 
every 2 months (with 2 months worth of changes) will just mean that there 
will be more problems in this area, and since they will be more 
concentrated in that area it will be harder to fix them all fast as the 
same group of people are needed for all of them.

if several maintainers think that you are correct that doing a merge with 
far fewer changes will be a lot faster, they can test this in the real 
world by skipping one release. just send Linus a 'no changes this time' 
instead of a pull request. If you are right the stable release will happen 
significantly faster and they can say 'I told you so' and in the next 
release have a fair chance of convincing other maintainers to skip a 
release.

it does worry me a bit that the release cycle seems to be slipping 
slightly each release, but I don't see a good way to fix this.

David Lang
--
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Messages in current thread:
Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Tue Apr 29, 7:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Tue Apr 29, 9:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Tue Apr 29, 9:18 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 12:03 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Wed Apr 30, 12:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 6:04 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Michael Kerrisk, (Wed Apr 30, 6:18 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 6:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Apr 30, 6:38 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 7:15 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 7:20 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 7:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, mws, (Wed Apr 30, 7:41 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Peter Teoh, (Wed Apr 30, 7:48 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 7:51 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 8:02 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 8:06 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 11:21 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 11:27 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 11:55 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Friesen, (Wed Apr 30, 12:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 12:08 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 12:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 12:16 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 12:22 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 12:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 12:36 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 12:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 1:00 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 1:05 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 1:14 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 1:15 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 1:20 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 1:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 1:45 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dan Noe, (Wed Apr 30, 1:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 1:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 1:56 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 1:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 2:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 2:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 2:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 2:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 2:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 2:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, H. Peter Anvin, (Wed Apr 30, 2:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 3:02 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jiri Slaby, (Wed Apr 30, 3:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:08 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 3:10 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 3:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 3:22 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 3:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 3:28 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 3:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 3:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 3:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 3:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 3:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 3:49 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 3:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 3:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mariusz Kozlowski, (Wed Apr 30, 3:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 3:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 4:04 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:11 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 4:12 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 4:20 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 4:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Paul Mackerras, (Wed Apr 30, 4:29 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Greg KH, (Wed Apr 30, 4:34 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 4:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 4:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:45 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 4:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 5:01 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 5:14 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 5:15 pm)
RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 5:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 5:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 5:38 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 5:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 5:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 5:56 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 5:57 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 6:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 6:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Wed Apr 30, 6:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Theodore Tso, (Wed Apr 30, 6:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Wed Apr 30, 6:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 6:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:43 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 6:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 30, 6:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 7:01 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 7:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 7:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Wed Apr 30, 7:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 7:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Nigel Cunningham, (Wed Apr 30, 7:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 7:48 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Frans Pop, (Wed Apr 30, 7:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bob Tracy, (Wed Apr 30, 8:24 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 8:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Frans Pop, (Wed Apr 30, 8:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 30, 9:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 9:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 9:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 10:09 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 10:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 10:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 10:50 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jan Engelhardt, (Wed Apr 30, 11:15 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 1:13 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Alan Cox, (Thu May 1, 2:17 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Enrico Weigelt, (Thu May 1, 3:30 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 3:59 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 4:30 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 4:38 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 4:53 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 5:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Will Newton, (Thu May 1, 5:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Thu May 1, 5:31 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 5:41 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, David Woodhouse, (Thu May 1, 5:42 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 5:53 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 6:02 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bartlomiej Zolnierki ..., (Thu May 1, 6:16 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 6:21 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 6:23 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Lennart Sorensen, (Thu May 1, 6:49 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 6:53 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Thu May 1, 6:54 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 7:06 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bartlomiej Zolnierki ..., (Thu May 1, 7:35 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 8:26 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Kasper Sandberg, (Thu May 1, 8:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ray Lee, (Thu May 1, 8:29 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Thu May 1, 8:34 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 8:49 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Diego Calleja, (Thu May 1, 9:26 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Thu May 1, 9:31 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Steven Rostedt, (Thu May 1, 9:38 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Valdis.Kletnieks, (Thu May 1, 9:39 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 10:09 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 10:18 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Theodore Tso, (Thu May 1, 10:24 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 10:41 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Thu May 1, 11:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 11:23 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 11:30 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stephen Clark, (Thu May 1, 11:32 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Frey, (Thu May 1, 11:35 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 11:50 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 11:54 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 11:58 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 12:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Thu May 1, 12:07 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 12:26 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 12:28 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Valdis.Kletnieks, (Thu May 1, 12:36 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Thu May 1, 12:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Friedrich , (Thu May 1, 12:39 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Steven Rostedt, (Thu May 1, 12:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Thu May 1, 12:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 12:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 12:58 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Joel Becker, (Thu May 1, 1:07 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 2:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 3:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Kevin Winchester, (Thu May 1, 4:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stephen Rothwell, (Thu May 1, 6:48 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Thu May 1, 7:08 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Thu May 1, 9:09 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 1:29 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 2:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Fri May 2, 3:16 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andi Kleen, (Fri May 2, 3:20 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 4:58 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Fri May 2, 5:17 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Enrico Weigelt, (Fri May 2, 6:22 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Helge Hafting, (Fri May 2, 6:37 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Fri May 2, 7:05 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Linus Torvalds, (Fri May 2, 7:58 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mariusz Kozlowski, (Fri May 2, 8:33 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 2, 8:44 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Linus Torvalds, (Fri May 2, 9:28 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 2, 10:15 am)
RE: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Pallipadi, Venkatesh, (Fri May 2, 11:02 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rene Herman, (Sat May 3, 8:26 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rene Herman, (Sun May 4, 5:45 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Pekka Enberg, (Sun May 4, 6:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rene Herman, (Sun May 4, 6:19 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Krzysztof Halasa, (Sun May 4, 6:47 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jacek Luczak, (Sun May 4, 8:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rusty Russell, (Sun May 4, 8:04 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Benny Halevy, (Mon May 5, 3:03 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jiri Kosina, (Fri May 9, 2:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Fri May 9, 8:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 9, 12:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ben Dooks, (Mon May 12, 2:27 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Pavel Machek, (Wed May 14, 7:55 am)