Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support)

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]
From: Goswin von Brederlow
Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 9:02 am

Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au> writes:


I would think it should be pretty hard to have only one page out of
each 2MB chunk allocated and non evictable (writeable, swappable or
movable). Wouldn't that require some kernel driver to allocate all
pages and then selectively free them in such a pattern as to keep one
page per 2MB chunk?

Assuming nothing tries to allocate a large chunk of ram while holding
to many locks for the kernel to free it.


It might be naive (stop me as soon as I go into dream world) but I
would think there are two kinds of fragmentation:

Hard fragments - physical pages the kernel can't move around
Soft fragments - virtual pages/cache that happen to cause a fragment

I would further assume most ram is used on soft fragments and that the
kernel will free them up by flushing or swapping the data when there
is sufficient need. With defragmentation support the kernel could
prevent some flushings or swapping by moving the data from one
physical page to another. But that would just reduce unneccessary work
and not change the availability of larger pages.

Further I would assume that there are two kinds of hard fragments:
Fragments allocated once at start time and temporary fragments.

At boot time (or when a module is loaded or something) you get a tiny
amount of ram allocated that will remain busy for basically ever. You
get some fragmentation right there that you can never get rid of.

At runtime a lot of pages are allocated and quickly freed again. They
get preferably positions in regions where there already is
fragmentation. In regions where there are suitable sized holes
already. They would only break a free 2MB chunk into smaller chunks if
there is no small hole to be found.

Now a trick I would use is to put kernel allocated pages at one end of
the ram and virtual/cache pages at the other end. Small kernel allocs
would find holes at the start of the ram while big allocs would have
to move more to the middle or end of the ram to find a large enough
hole. And virtual/cache pages could always be cleared out to free
large continious chunks.

Splitting the two types would prevent fragmentation of freeable and
not freeable regions giving us always a large pool to pull compound
pages from.

One could also split the ram into regions of different page sizes,
meaning that some large compound pages may not be split below a
certain limit. E.g. some amount of ram would be reserved for chunk


It depends on the lifetime of the allocations. If the lifetime is
uniform enough then larger chunks of memory allocated for small
objects will always be freed after a short time. If the lifetime
varies widely then it can happen that one page of a larger chunk
remains busy far longer than the rest causing fragmentation.

I'm hopeing that we don't have such wide variance in lifetime that we
run into a ENOMEM. I'm hoping allocation and freeing are not random
events that would result in an expectancy of an infinite number of
allocations to be alife as time tends towards infinity. I'm hoping
there is enough dependence between the two to impose an upper limit on
the fragmentation.


I think the only acceptable solution is to have the code cope with
large pages being unavailable and use multiple smaller chunks instead
in a tight spot. By all means try to use a large continious chunk but
never fail just because we are too fragmented. I'm sure modern system
with 4+GB ram will not run into the wall but i'm equaly sure older
systems with as little as 64MB quickly will. Handling the fragmented
case is the only way to make sure we keep running.


MfG
        Goswin
-
Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]

Messages in current thread:
[00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Mon Sep 10, 11:03 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Tue Sep 11, 5:05 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Tue Sep 11, 9:02 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Tue Sep 11, 9:47 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Maxim Levitsky, (Tue Sep 11, 11:25 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Tue Sep 11, 12:20 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 1:01 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 1:03 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 1:07 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 1:11 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 1:13 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 1:41 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 1:42 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 2:35 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 2:41 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 2:48 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 2:52 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Tue Sep 11, 4:26 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 5:00 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 11, 5:04 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Wed Sep 12, 1:20 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Martin J. Bligh, (Wed Sep 12, 7:29 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Wed Sep 12, 4:06 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Wed Sep 12, 4:17 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Thu Sep 13, 7:38 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Fri Sep 14, 9:10 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Fri Sep 14, 10:52 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Fri Sep 14, 11:08 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Fri Sep 14, 11:15 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Fri Sep 14, 5:31 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Fri Sep 14, 5:33 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sat Sep 15, 5:14 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Sat Sep 15, 8:51 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sat Sep 15, 1:14 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Sat Sep 15, 3:30 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sun Sep 16, 6:54 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Sun Sep 16, 8:08 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Linus Torvalds, (Sun Sep 16, 11:15 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Linus Torvalds, (Sun Sep 16, 11:44 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Sun Sep 16, 11:50 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Sun Sep 16, 2:31 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sun Sep 16, 2:58 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sun Sep 16, 3:06 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sun Sep 16, 3:38 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sun Sep 16, 3:48 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sun Sep 16, 3:51 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sun Sep 16, 3:56 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Mon Sep 17, 3:00 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Mon Sep 17, 3:03 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Mon Sep 17, 3:05 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Mon Sep 17, 3:10 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Mon Sep 17, 3:21 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Linus Torvalds, (Tue Sep 18, 11:30 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Tue Sep 18, 12:18 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Tue Sep 18, 12:31 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Linus Torvalds, (Tue Sep 18, 12:44 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 18, 1:36 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Tue Sep 18, 1:42 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Wed Sep 19, 7:04 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Thu Sep 20, 7:54 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Thu Sep 20, 11:07 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Thu Sep 20, 11:11 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sat Sep 22, 10:50 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sat Sep 22, 11:22 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sat Sep 22, 11:49 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Goswin von Brederlow, (Sat Sep 22, 11:56 pm)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Andrea Arcangeli, (Mon Sep 24, 8:39 am)
Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support), Christoph Lameter, (Mon Sep 24, 2:13 pm)