Re: ZFS honesty

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From: 韓家標 Bill Hacker
Date: Sunday, January 6, 2008 - 3:58 pm

Ivan Voras wrote:

None are perfect. But ZFS is just *too* new. And not just on *BSD.
If IBM had not already had GPFS, Sun might never even have 'invented' ZFS.

The 'other' ones with the longest 'history' - where known-problems have knwon 
avoidance/workaround, may well be XFS and JFS. Heavy-lifters iwht commercial 
track-records, both.

Not to mention UFS...

I'm still in the practice of 'slicing' into 50 GB or so - 100GB max - no matter 
*what* the drive size is.

So where's the 'beef'?

Half-terabyte *files*?  I surely hope not..

At some point too many eggs (files) in one basket just makes b/u restore a 
nightmare.

There are no silver bullets.

Drives fail. Controllers fail, and sometimes had done so long before anyone 
noticed they were subtly corrupting data. So even RAID arrays and offline b/u 
can fail one..

ZFS doesn't 'fix' all that - just approaches a fix in an all-software manner.

Other failings aside, there is an overhead penalty for all the 'handling'.

Coders may believe in that. It's what they do.

I'll take simplicity, redundant hardware.  And compartmentalization.

Faster, cheaper, lasts a long time.

And takes more manageable sized chunks out of yerass when it DOES go tits-up. 
As that all do.

Bill
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Messages in current thread:
When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Fri Jan 4, 4:42 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Brooks Davis, (Fri Jan 4, 9:33 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Fri Jan 4, 10:58 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Brooks Davis, (Fri Jan 4, 11:12 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Peter Schuller, (Sun Jan 6, 2:51 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 5:58 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 6:07 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Maciej Suszko, (Sun Jan 6, 6:46 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 6:50 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 7:27 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 7:51 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 8:08 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Robert Watson, (Sun Jan 6, 8:36 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 8:46 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Henri Hennebert, (Sun Jan 6, 8:48 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 9:03 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Maciej Suszko, (Sun Jan 6, 9:05 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 9:22 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 9:45 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Henri Hennebert, (Sun Jan 6, 9:47 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 9:47 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Robert Watson, (Sun Jan 6, 10:08 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 10:12 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 10:13 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 10:20 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 10:20 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 10:28 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 10:34 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 10:36 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 10:43 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 11:00 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 11:09 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 11:10 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Gary Corcoran, (Sun Jan 6, 11:48 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 11:49 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Maciej Suszko, (Sun Jan 6, 12:56 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Claus Guttesen, (Sun Jan 6, 1:00 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Vadim Goncharov, (Sun Jan 6, 1:56 pm)
ZFS honesty, Scott Long, (Sun Jan 6, 2:00 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 2:32 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Kris Kennaway, (Sun Jan 6, 2:42 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, Scott Long, (Sun Jan 6, 2:54 pm)
Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Maxim Sobolev, (Sun Jan 6, 2:56 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, 韓家標 Bill Hacker, (Sun Jan 6, 3:20 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, 韓家標 Bill Hacker, (Sun Jan 6, 3:32 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 3:33 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Robert Watson, (Sun Jan 6, 3:33 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 3:43 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 3:45 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, 韓家標 Bill Hacker, (Sun Jan 6, 3:58 pm)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Adam McDougall, (Sun Jan 6, 4:32 pm)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Erich Dollansky, (Sun Jan 6, 4:39 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, Alexandre "Sunny" Ko ..., (Sun Jan 6, 5:03 pm)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Maxim Sobolev, (Sun Jan 6, 5:58 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, Ivan Voras, (Sun Jan 6, 6:16 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, 韓家標 Bill Hacker, (Sun Jan 6, 7:29 pm)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Christian Walther, (Mon Jan 7, 12:10 am)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Igor Mozolevsky, (Mon Jan 7, 1:20 am)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Christian Walther, (Mon Jan 7, 1:51 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Pawel Jakub Dawidek, (Mon Jan 7, 2:59 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Mon Jan 7, 3:30 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Igor Mozolevsky, (Mon Jan 7, 6:17 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Dag-Erling Smørgrav, (Mon Jan 7, 7:04 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Mon Jan 7, 7:37 am)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Joao Barros, (Mon Jan 7, 7:52 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Vadim Goncharov, (Mon Jan 7, 8:16 am)
Re: ZFS honesty, Alexandre Biancalana, (Mon Jan 7, 8:23 am)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Bernd Walter, (Mon Jan 7, 8:36 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Robert Watson, (Mon Jan 7, 8:39 am)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Peter Schuller, (Mon Jan 7, 10:06 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Andrew Thompson, (Mon Jan 7, 1:46 pm)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Alexander Kabaev, (Mon Jan 7, 3:47 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Vadim Goncharov, (Mon Jan 7, 4:28 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Robert Watson, (Mon Jan 7, 4:39 pm)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, David Taylor, (Tue Jan 8, 12:56 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Robert Watson, (Tue Jan 8, 2:19 am)
Re: Should we simply disallow ZFS on FreeBSD/i386?, Oliver Fromme, (Tue Jan 8, 10:51 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Oliver Fromme, (Tue Jan 8, 10:58 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Steve Kargl, (Tue Jan 8, 10:59 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Dag-Erling Smørgrav, (Tue Jan 8, 11:24 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Vadim Goncharov, (Tue Jan 8, 11:58 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Robert Watson, (Tue Jan 8, 12:22 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Ivan Voras, (Tue Jan 8, 4:16 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Dan Nelson, (Tue Jan 8, 10:45 pm)
Re: ZFS honesty, Andrew Gallatin, (Wed Jan 9, 6:23 am)
Re: ZFS honesty, Alexandre "Sunny" Ko ..., (Wed Jan 9, 7:55 am)
Re: ZFS honesty, Andrew Gallatin, (Wed Jan 9, 8:36 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Scot Hetzel, (Wed Jan 9, 10:39 am)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Mark Powell, (Sat Jan 12, 2:45 pm)
Re: When will ZFS become stable?, Darren Reed, (Tue Jan 22, 8:09 am)